West Midlands “police” have released a video on social media urging road users to report each other for perceived motoring “offences”…
Here’s an example from their video:
They claim to have “taken action” against hundreds of Motorists thanks to video submissions like this one, which was received from a disgruntled cyclist because a driver supposedly passed “too closely” by him…
Aside from the fact that this idea seems to have existed only in the mind of the cyclist — and of course the brave crimefighters at West Midlands police — I have an important question:
Do we really want to live in a World where we have to be wary of neighbours and strangers “grassing us up” for any perceived infraction of the almighty states rules …which, when you really think about it are just a load of ideas dreamed up by a bunch of self entitled busybodies?
If you have an interest in history — as I do — you’ll know that at certain times, and in certain places (East Germany in the 1980s being a recent example), people were expected by the state to report on their family, friends, and strangers if they suspected they’d done or thought something “wrong” in the eyes of the state…
And many were so fearful of the consequences of not reporting others that they did just that — effectively working as an extension of the Stasi.
This kind of dynamic has existed in other parts of the World at different times, when totalitarian governments have felt they can get away with it due to their perceived power.
Some say that it exists today, for example in North Korea and in other less well publicized examples like Turkmenistan and Eritrea.
I would argue that China — with around 18% of the Worlds population living there — also falls in to this category.
I’d also make the argument that these places, and — arguably, all governments — are run by extremely damaged people who’s only motivation in life is to coerce and control others…
I’ll conceded its not yet as bad here as in those places, but it does seem to *clearly* be the direction that both the UK and many other so-called first world countries are headed in.
So I’d like to ask Members:
Does this sit comfortably with you?
Leave you thoughts in the comments below…
All the best,
Adam
P.S. Its not just on the roads that this “report on your neighbours” attitude rearing its ugly head.
In London, residents have been given a “hotline” phone number to report their neighbours to the council if they don’t live there “often enough”. (source)
Westminster council want to force you to rent your home out if you don’t live in it often enough for their liking.
It seems these psychopaths simply don’t acknowledge the concepts of private ownership, freedom of movement, or making your own choices in life….
“Do what WE want, or we’ll make your life a misery!” appears to be their mantra.
And in the prison island of Australia (source), the government has a phone app where it encourages users to report their neighbours for things such as “illegal parking”… (source)
I’d really like to know what you and other Members think about this slow but steady march towards a global police state?
Please let me know in the comments here:
Based on the photograph accompanying your article it does not appear that the car was anywhere near the cyclist and was in fact several meters behind the cyclist. Unless there was further photographic proof showing otherwise I would be surprised that the police did not caution the cyslist for wasting police time.
However the police need something to do as actually attending burglaries, violent disorder and other serious related criminial actions takes up so little of their time.
no it is not right, i live inner city and cyclist’s get away with thousands of road violations every day, jumping lights, taking up the full road etc etc. car drivers spend thousands a year to drive how much does a cycle user pay. and who is policing them ?
It looks to me that West Midland’s Police is on a sticking wicket with this one – “incitation to hatred” comes to mind; as well as infringing on personal liberty/ies (taking and using private data without authorisation – GDPR); etc.
Totalitarian states all use this “snitching” way of enforcing dictature / one party state. I am sure “we” (the silent majority) don’t want to go that particular way
I am also sure “individual rights” charities will take up the challenge; legal if needs be.
Government should be from the ground up. Local areas should be in charge of their own destination based on communities. Communities should interact of a friendly basis on the understanding that we are all one family on this planet Earth(Tara, Gaia)
yay. does this mean we can now report cyclists for undertaking. jumping red lights etc. might mean police have to do some actual work. as cyclists ride anonymously with no registration but hey. gotta work both ways?
No I am not in favour of snitching on others except in exstreme cases. Who are the greatest offenders? Cyclists, where are their ID plates and have they got third party insurance?
We are not ‘marching towards ‘ a police state,w e are already in it.
it is like Sunak said he will be bringing Ai in to stop Benifit fraud, but he did not bring it in to stop all that fraud when the pandemic was on like is wife getting millions from the tax payer then going bust and all these shops opened up got to money then closed down again
Hi Adam
I ride a bike and wear a Video Camera which I switch on for all reasonable length road journeys.
A number of incidents have occurred which have annoyed me by motorist being less than careful when passing me however to date none have been that dangerous.
Should a really dangerous action by a motorist which either endangered me or caused me harm then I would report it.
So, like most things in this world its all about degrees and I suspect the police would like more so they can do less and appear productive which I am not prepared to go along with.
Regards
Alan
It would be good if the police could control intentional and harmful crime.
Cyclists will not ride on prepared cycle tracts but are the first to moan.
How much does it cost per yard / meter of cycle track.
if you look at ytube at the motoring sights and the cameras that are capturing other road users doing stupid things on the road ..isn’t that spying in a big way and having it shown on TV the police don’t need extra help as it’s there on the media
I totally agree this is totally wrong that the Police should request from the general Public to be their spies for revenue purposes, Especially on this video which clearly states the vehicle was within a safety distance from the cyclist as shown.
‘HOWEVER’ !!! The police are cunningly looking for area’s of drivers that break the Highway Code. If you look very carefully as the vehicle approaches the Cyclist, The driver unfortunately drives over or on the extended white Lane lines. I believe the longer lane lines are not to be crossed over nor to overtake. This is where the Police are enforcing the fine on this occasion. Although one can see there is a bus stop where this video was taken via the cyclist and generally everyday we all pass a public bus whilst stopped.
Just to add .. The police had enforced this fine due to the fact there was on-going traffic from the opposite side whilst he was overtaking.
Either way what a sham for collecting venue
Having lived under one of the regimes it’s extremely worrying to see the path that the state is beginning to take, the difference here is it’s the state rather than a despot which may be even worse as the state stays in place as governments change. It smacks of Nazi gestapo tactics and should NOT be accepted or tolerated one iota by us the people, we should be calling the shots and not ‘them’ and let’s not get onto cyclists and what they get up to with little or no police action
Nazi Germany comes to mind
Well we did lend them ninety million Deutschmarks just before the war started. The quote of the day was “There is not much chance of being repaid, but that is better than the fall of Nazism” So maybe, just maybe…Oh hang on. King Edward declared himself a Nazi while shaking Hitler’s hand and Mrs Simpson gave secrets away to the German Ambassador in London. Oops. The links are getting stronger.
I have already passed video on to the Police twice. Once for a motorist towing a trailer on the M5, but he was in the outside lane, doing about 87 MPH. This I considered extremely dangerous. The other time was a 40 foot Articulated lorry passing a line of vehicles over the speed limit and the other side of double white lines. Any one of your readers who think that this was not correct is an idiot.
I am not comfortable with this idea! When I learnt to ride a bike in Chelsea in the 50’s I was alway told to take care of myself!!! If you choose to ride a bike ride it carefully, if it all goes wrong it is you who will get hurt.
I often used to get home from school on my bike with dirt on my elbows where a bus had passed me so close I dusted the side of his bus for him!!!!
No I agree its the first step on the slide.
Note in case you did not know they know use signed up general public to have in vehicle speed cameras fitted in order to catch other members of the public speeding.
Its only a matter of time before we see this happing in the UK.
Hi Martin, can you tell me more about that? I know they have been doing it in France (we did a newsletter on that a year or two back).
I totally agree with you.
Part of this debate relates to the drive towards a cashless society.
In my mind this is leading to a quite dystopian society.
The rationale is that government can eventually tax at source but of course taxing at source reveals the purchase or service. Box of chocolates sir? Sorry computer says you bought one yesterday and are now over your weekly calorie intake for sugar…….
Ultimately if government has access and control of this data it would be a simple matter to block credit as a method of control.
Encouraging people to report others can be a matter of opinion. You cannot give offence only take it so look at your neighbour the wrong way and then next thing is that you have some interaction with Police or local government.
When I was working in Germany (in 1983) the Berlin Wall was still a thing. When I came home again I mentioned to people that in the East there were cameras on all the streets to ‘keep an eye’ on the public. It was also a regular thing to be stopped and asked to produce I.D. papers.
The general attitude (bearing in mind it was the 1980’s) was “Well that’s Russia and China for you. We’d never tolerate that sort of thing here – we are a democracy”. Hmm. Look at us now. Cameras everywhere (same as China), talk of ID cards with biometric strips containing all our information. Talk of limiting travel and charging by the mile, and now this “Be a bitch and become a state snitch” policy.
I’m not sure if people have become so dumbed down they see these things as normal. But that thing we call democracy is being slowly taken away. If anything the democracy “experiment” seems to have served its purpose and the next five to ten years should see it dropped in favour of a state run Orwellian type future – with the help of those creepy snitch types – (trying to buy favour with the police/state/law).
Hopefully I’ll be dead & buried before it comes to pass. I think in a couple of generations time, the previous generations will be looked at as “those people who allowed this mess to happen”. Your great grandchildren might not have the fond thoughts you are hoping for. But hey, what do I know? I label myself as a pessimistic optimist. So hopefully I’m wrong. I doubt it, but time will tell.
Well said Steve, although I’m (slightly) more optimistic that some of us at least will simply not tolerate it. Having control over our own money (Bitcoin) is a game changer in my opinion.
Well if someone is driving at 100mph through a village or past a school , or overtaking on blind bends, causes an accident or is driving in some other excessively dangerous way sending the footage to the Police is legitimate. However minor annoyances isn’t the police may regret their call as it will flood them with footage.
So now they want us to do their job for them! NOT A CHANCE!
Where I live they have a dashcam court every Saturday morning. Their is a website where you can submit dashcam footage. This is looked at on a case to case basis. Anything that is deemed an offence is forwarded to the Crown Prosecution Office. They then decide if their is grounds to prosecute.
All I can say is at present their is a backlog of cases pending. Most are given the opportunity to admit to the offence and pay the find and accept the penalty point’s. Unfortunately a lot of them also choose to contest it. Needless to say these people feel the full force of the law with maximum fines and point’s issued to them.
My point is if it’s your car and clearly you commuting the offences !! Why even let it get to the point that your up in front of the magistrates. The CPO won’t take any action unless they are pretty confident they will have good chance to prosecute.
Before passing comment:
1, Read the most recent update of the Highway Code.
2, Try riding a bicycle on the Public Highway.
3, Try crossing the Public Highway with an old or disabled person.
4, Count the number of cars vs. cyclists and pedestrian.
5, Ask yourself if you have ever relied on a Witness for an RTA.
I am totally opposed to people snitching or being asked to snitch on each other. It’s absolutely outrageous that the police would ask for ‘informants’ in this way.
People need to wake up and see the similarities of all the examples you laid out.
Snitching on people is dangerous behaviour and will be the cause of their own downfall sooner or later.
I wasn’t going to reply, then I went out for a lunchtime walk.
My village is inundated with ignorant drivers who have no regard for pedestrians, cyclists or horse riders. Yesterday such a driver caused a cyclist & horse rider to end up in hospital. Many times I have been clipped by wing mirrors or have had to jump, as today. We have no pavements or anywhere to go on any road in the area. This is in town with a 30 mph limit that is ignored.
There is a safe speed & legally mandated distance to pass cyclists, pedestrians & horses that is routinely ignored causing so many deaths & injuries. Junction rights of way are routinely ignored by motorists too.
I absolutely support you on the unfair war on motorists in particular via notional speeding but absolutely abhor ignorant motorists who think they own the road and hate anyone who gets in there way, so think it right to use their car as a weapon as shown in that video.
Speed limits are becoming far too low, but think, could that be because we have lost the ability to slow down for a hazard and instead think we have a right to dive at the speed limit? Try watching dashcam videos and you see why stupid rules are being imposed!
The Government should take active steps to prosecute those who report what they believe to be a “crime”, when those reporting have received absolutely no training in assessing “percieved” crimes whatsoever! If the government want this sort of thing to occur then they must ensure that those making such reports have received the required training to be able to assess the reported situation. If such reports are made by those not in receipt of the relevant assessment training then they should be prosecuted for wasting police time!
We have a duty of care for Pedestrians Horse riders & cyclists,
Now as a Registered with British cycling I ride a Recumbent trike I have insurance PLUS I ensure my lights are on all the time with a Flag flying for large Vehicle and sorry to mention Vehicles do not pay road Tax. We as Pedestrians Do. The so called Tax we pay on Vehicle goes to government No to fill in Pot Holes where I fell it should
best regards
John
Sounds like a Natzy idea to me, because that’s exactly how one would be expected to report the existence of a Jew in Natzy Germany.
Another example of divide and rule.
but those towing the line won’t be left alone. same rule will apply and will suffer the same-state is no friend to anyone…
Another example of stealth tax!
Adam, couldn’t have put it better than you. The GESTAPO and/or STASI would have been proud!
Hi I live in West Yorkshire the standard of driving here is a appalling if you were to report everyone it would be a full time job
There are “some” things of a serious nature that should be reported but many things that are trivial should be left to rest. If we had a list of sensible things then very few people would be able to remember them all and react immediately.
I would only contact the Police if I suspected a “Drink Driver”
Never been a snitch, and never will be. Some people really deserve being done for the selfish things they do. But yes China springs to mind, worlds going down the pan.
i live in essex lots of cyclists there, and,loads of narrow roads, why do they insist on riding two abreast, making it impossible to get passed them.very annoying.
Last time I checked we were not a police state nor were we a communist country, it is more likely that the west midlands police like many other police forces in this country are just to damn lazy to get off their fat arses and do their jobs properly, it is a pity that they don’t put as much effort into catching criminals or arresting people spouting hate bile in this country.
I drive a horse and carriage. I have no option but to drive on a A road. If vehicles pass me at 60+ mph with less than 2ft clearance and cut in to my horse forcing it to dive into the ditch or die then absolutely YES I am going to send in that video to the police. I might just save another rider’s life. The law is clear.
Highway Code Rule 163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 215). As a guide:leave at least 1.5 metres (5ft) when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds
It’s clear in the video that the car left way less than 1.5metres, so would be breaking the highway code but most of all, making a dangerous overtake by causing threat to the life of the cyclist. In my experience this most likely happened when a build up of traffic not far ahead would result it in stopping and the cyclist then LEGALLY repassing by “filtering”. if only car drivers knew the highway code as they legally must keep aware of to hold a driving licence, and got rid of their “we own the road in our safe as houses metal boxes”
I say this as a pedestrian, occasional cyclist (taking life in hands with drivers seemingly out to kill cyclists), car driver, motorbike rider and van driver
Adam, what you have described has already started here in the UK. It started with the covid restrictions, and is now part of the government culture. it really is scary when a person can get a prison sentence and a criminal record for addressing a person by the wrong gender.
I would not help the Police in any way I see them as a bunch of liars conmen Murderess liars abusers two faced no goods who should do the job they are paid for not rely on us to do it for them stop acting like a bunch of thick Americans when they catch some one and act like they are in a very poor made film, how many have been sacked should tell us all what they are like they are poorly trained as well and any body helping them when found out ask for all they get there are some very nasty dangerous people out there who would not hesitate to hurt them snitching on some one can bring very dangerous consequences to them and their Families zip the mouth use the brain. if you have one.
Lete me turn your question around – Do we REALLY want to live in a world where certain people think they can do what they want without suffering the consequences?
When are you and others like you going to grow up? There are laws – obey them. If you don’t like it, petition the politicans, vote them out, make yourself heard.
As for comparing this country to East germany, North Korea, China … take your childish “me first” logic and shove it where the sun don’t shine.
The only ‘damaged people’ round here are you and others like you.
I don’t like it. And look how insidious it is. Speedwatch well meaning locals trying to get people to drive safely through villages.
Cyclist helmet camera for self defence turns into vigilante patrol who reports motorists who are using their phone while “driving “ at 0 mph stopped at lights. And gets thanks from the police!
Ultimately it could be argued that the WW2 holocaust might not have worked without neighbours guiding the Nazis to the Jewish families.
We must be careful what we wish for
I have been reading other peoples comments and this springs to mind. WHAT GO’S ROUND COMES ROUND you tell on others they will or family members will tell on you or worse be stupid enough to give violence to you and always remember this you will eventually be found out and if you live in their area your life can become an instant misery have seen this happen before and believe its not very nice. Windows smashed car damaged shop keepers refusing to let you into their shop friends leaving you it just go’s on none stop so think before you leap or pay the cost and the pipers very expensive
It’s called ‘Divide & Rule’, Adam: People are encouraged to blame others for their problems. If the people in Eastenders/Coronation St. got on with each other, no-one would watch because nothing happens: instead, they lie, cheat, steal, backstab, murder each other. Minorities like to think they’re discriminated against; Protesters like to annoy others & it all adds up to divisions in Society. You, yourself, foment discontent against the Establishment, without realising you’re being manipulated. It’s such an effective strategy, people think it’s normal, hence the divisions in Society. If you wonder why: ask yourself why the Poor vote for the Rich to tell them how to live? The Rich get richer as the Poor get poorer, blaming each other for their problems. I hope this helps. I like you.
Yes it is STAZI Shit Time. Heaven help us real humans!
You mix up too many things. You are defending foreigners buying property in London with no intention of living there, why?
I think the idea is to raise revenue very easy, because these so called crimes are reported by a ‘witness’ clearly making prosecution simple for the police. – It’s easy revenue with very little effort.